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Math anyone?

Catalysis Resident Posted by in General - May 17, 2013, 1:25 am

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This issue first came to light with the worm farms, but now I see it in pretty much every aspect of fish hunt and gold hunt...  I'm not going to crunch numbers here, cuz that's just boring to read, but I think you'll see my point. Does anyone actually do the math to see what it costs to win contests, or produce goods?

Players sell worms for less than it costs to grow them, so it takes days to actually LOSE money. The farms never pay for themselves, unless like me you just stop selling the worms and fish with them instead, increasing your fishing profit a little. Then it only takes MONTHS for the farms to pay for themselves. lol

Players are crafting items to sell, for less than it costs to buy the ingredients that go in them. Even if they collect ALL the ingredients and only have to buy the recipes, they are not taking into account the rent they pay either for the land the snuffles are on, or the land their shop is on where they sell their stuff, OR THEIR TIME.  Maybe they consider it part of the cost of buying traffic, but some of them dont actually offer any other product or service, so what are they driving traffic to?  lol

Players are now also investing hundreds of lindens on potions to win the royal hunt contests, and winning less in prize money than it cost them to come in first place...lol

The problem with all this in my opinion, is that is screws the economy for everyone, not just for them. It devalues all off the products and services, reduces overall prize money for everyone, and makes many of the lgh activities a total waste of time. These players have decided their time isnt worth anything, and so make everyone else's time worthless in the process.


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Catalysis Resident

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Community Comments

Cristalyn Resident
May 17, 2013, 7:59 am -

Cat, I don't have any linden in my atm at the moment or I'd tip you for this one. YES! I notice. I'm constantly crunching the numbers. It's part of the reason I can't do some of the activities I'd enjoy being involved in. As soon as I fish a bit I'll try to remember to come back and tip you because for this one you very much deserve it. yes


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Catalysis Resident
May 17, 2013, 12:28 pm -

Well like everything else, Wili has even decided to make money off donations thru the blogs.  If you want to donate, please go to my land Sunset Beach and donate to the sim or buy worms or something.  I see no reason for Wili to get a tip for something I wrote. Jesus...

http://slurl.com/secondlife/Oppenheim/28/157/21


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Goldtokens
October 6, 2014, 2:59 pm -

Because topics that have donations are listed on top donations list on front page we've implemented a comission of 30 %. Without that blog posters would send donations to themselves just to rank up their blog on top donations list.


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Catalysis Resident
May 17, 2013, 1:58 pm -

LOL I wondered how long it would take you to reply with some sort of justification for yet another tax.  I have no desire to rank at the 'top of the blogs', I was just stating my opinion on a relevant LGH topic.

**Players: Please make any and all donations to Sunset Beach, where ALL of it will actually go back into funding buoys and making supplies available to the fishers**

http://slurl.com/secondlife/Oppenheim/28/157/21


 


Goldtokens
October 6, 2014, 2:59 pm -

Prior the donation is executed every donnor gets a pop up message that informs donnor about this and they can select ok to proceed or cancel to cancel the donation they attempted to make. If someone prefers to send L$ to a player they can do that in Second Life. I don't see any problem in letting people to decide for themselves what they want or don't want to do. 


stewart9 Resident
May 17, 2013, 10:42 am -

You are so correct Cat and that some people like to squander their money to make things cheaper as just to undercut others is beyond belief. The game of farming was set out to make businesses and profits but he people who wish to sell all relevent items  at low cost affects us all and are killing the business for others.


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Lumadil Resident
May 19, 2013, 1:46 am -

Well first of all, as your farm xp goes up, the price of charcol and others goes down from what i hear. most actually do make a profit, they sell low, because their farm xp is high enough to make them for less. My wife and i made potions, and sold them for a profit. For some, its not about the money, they do it because they actually enjoy it, and alot do make a profit after awhile, its just a matter of patience. Now about Wili, he came up with an idea that people enjoy, does he make money? Yes he does, but nobody has ever said you have to play fish hunt. Nobody forced you at gun point to farm worms, or buy worms, or enter contests, or even fish for that matter, free will is something we all have, and you chose to play fish hunt, if it bothers you that much, then why keep doing it? My wife and i make our money back by fishing, we buy worms, but the money we make off those worms more than makes up for how much we spent. you say you farm your own worms, then good, outside of having to buy the breeder packs and the water, you don't really have to spend much money, problem solved. Frankly, i have no real complaints with fish hunt or any of its aspects, to me its like the stock market, you take a chance, sometimes it pays off, other times it doesnt. the only true complaint i have is with those who whine about a game, but still continue to play it...


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Catalysis Resident
May 19, 2013, 1:59 am -

 

Well first of all, as your farm xp goes up, the price of charcol and others goes down from what i hear. most actually do make a profit, they sell low, because their farm xp is high enough to make them for less. Well first of all, no it doesnt.  LMAO  The number of ingredients is supposed to go down with farm xp OR buoy points, depending on the potions/dust you are making.  But in a year and a half of farming and funding THREE buoys, the requirements for potion ingredients has not gone down for me. So, I dont think thats something that's been worked in yet.

My wife and i made potions, and sold them for a profit. For some, its not about the money, they do it because they actually enjoy it, and alot do make a profit after awhile, its just a matter of patience. I do what I enjoy too, and I skip the stuff I dont.  I was just making an observation that people seem to be willing to invest in very expensive items like farms etc, then sell the products they get from them at a loss. I dont understand that.

Now about Wili, he came up with an idea that people enjoy, does he make money? Yes he does, but nobody has ever said you have to play fish hunt. Nobody forced you at gun point to farm worms, or buy worms, or enter contests, or even fish for that matter, free will is something we all have, and you chose to play fish hunt, if it bothers you that much, then why keep doing it? I wasnt talking about Wili, or fish hunt as a whole, I was talking about the players who participate.My only complaint in that whole blog post that even remotely involved Wili, was the tax on donations to the blog.  And that was not even what my orignal post was about, just an aftethought after someone was kind enough to donate, and Wili got 30% of it. My wife and i make our money back by fishing, we buy worms, but the money we make off those worms more than makes up for how much we spent. you say you farm your own worms, then good, outside of having to buy the breeder packs and the water, you don't really have to spend much money, problem solved. Frankly, i have no real complaints with fish hunt or any of its aspects, to me its like the stock market, you take a chance, sometimes it pays off, other times it doesnt. the only true complaint i have is with those who whine about a game, but still continue to play it... A. I was not whining, I was making observations. B. its not at all like the stock market, we invest money in items that produce products. Its not chance or luck, its choice that people sell at a loss. C. I fund three buoys, farm worms, farm sunflower seeds, and raise snuffles. I've crunched the numbers. If you are selling small worms at the price they sell for right now, you are NOT making your money back, period. And most likely, unless you are fishing X3 or better ALL the time, you are not making a profit fishing either. Neither am I, that's my choice and not at all what my original post was about.


 


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Goldtokens
October 6, 2014, 2:59 pm -

My excel math shows that a breakeven price when u're getting your biowaste at price 0.8 L per unit and small worm pack for 9 L (with gold tokens) is 0.2425
When those players sell their worms above 0.2425 they're not making loss.

small worms

There are players who fish up their own biowaste. Price of biowaste for them is 0 L$. If they get a small worm pack at 9 L (with goldtokens) then their breakeven price is 0.2125 L$.
When those players sell their worms above 0.2125 they're not making loss.

small worms
 

Before making a post about math and indirectly accusing hundreds of people (players) of not considering math I suggest you do the math yourself and actually use the math to make a point or an argument,


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Goldtokens
October 6, 2014, 2:59 pm -

These are just small worms and with small worms profit is small but it isn't loss and people are not selling their worms at loss (unless there is an exception but most don't). Tasty worms have a bigger profit margin then small ones.


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Catalysis Resident
May 19, 2013, 8:26 pm -

Ok, so so far 4 people have replied... two agreed, one didnt know what he was talking about and totally missed my point, and now you...

Your Excel math still isnt taking into account the land those farms sit on that most people have to pay for (unless they're in a clan and getting free land use), and it still doesnt take into account peoples TIME. Which was really my point. People have put no value on the time the spend doing this stuff either.

And, farming was just one of several things I talked about. I would think you of all people would want a healthy economy where people make a profit, cuz God knows, the more we make the more you make.


Catalysis Resident
May 19, 2013, 9:09 pm -

Just because I cant stand it... let's do the math for a minute, completely. We'll assume what you have there is accuarate, as far as it goes.

The break even point for small worms is .2425. They sell right now for .25. so the profit per worm is .0075 multiplied by 100 worms per batch. The profit on a batch of worms that takes 2.33 days to grow is .75L,  LOL  Ok, so.. you can grow 12.88 batches of worms in a month (30 divided by 2.33).   12.88 x .75 = 9.66L profit per MONTH.  (still havent taken into account land rent or our time yet...)

Now for those in a clan, who have chosen or are allowed to use clan land for farming this is where it ends.  Yay, you make 9.66L profit per month, it'll only take about 340 months to pay for your mesh farm... (320 months if you bought the less expensive older farm, but those take more prims... which brings me to the land that MOST people pay for.)

Mesh farm = 2 prims. Most land rental is approx 2L per prim per week.  So for 2 prims, 4L/week or 16L a month.  Profit 9.66L - land cost 16L.  We're back to not making a profit again and we STILL havent paid ourselves for our time. Even if you're getting a decent deal on land at 1.5L per prim per week, its 3L per week, 12L per month and STILL not making a profit and STILL not paying yourself for your time.

So, I have done the math, and.. well you guys decide if you're willing to lose money or not. It's really as simple as that. It was never an attack on anyone in particular, it was just an observation.  I thought the math would be boring to read, but it doesnt mean I havent done it.

If anyone wants numbers on the other points I made in my original post, because it was not all about farming but about our behavior as a whole, I'm sure I can take the time to calaculate those out on paper for you too. Its not pretty.


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Catalysis Resident
May 19, 2013, 9:42 pm -

I'm going to say one last thing, and then stop replying to any more posts in this thread.  (well a few more things...lol)

A. This was NOT meant to be a criticism of Wili.
B. This was NOT meant to be a criticism of Fish Hunt.
C. Things can change, and do not have to be the way they are now.

We choose the value of our products and services every time we list them for sale. How many people do you know that would be willing to fish without worms if the price of worms went up some? Not many... Not me, that's for sure. The same applies to the other things I talked about originally, we are making choices, on a daily basis, to sell products and services at a loss and without taking into account the full cost pf production, or the value of our time. For some, maybe they just dont care, they're having fun and that's enough. Great. But maybe others just havent stopped to think about it. They see the money in their rod go up a little, and dont stop to think how much is cost them to get that little bit back.

 


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dayz Short
May 31, 2013, 6:49 am -

waves hello to all ☺/...just a side note on this part...

 

And most likely, unless you are fishing X3 or better ALL the time, you are not making a profit fishing either. Neither am I, that's my choice

i fish 1x almost exclusively and i make a profit

 


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Catalysis Resident
May 31, 2013, 11:41 am -

Yes, so do I.... but as you know its highly dependant on rank, and what size worms you fish with.  I'm ranked 8, you are ranked 168... The person I was actually talking to when I said that is ranked 230... So, I'll amend...

Unless you are using smalls worms and fishing multipliers, you are probably not making a profit either.

This has gotten completely ridiculous. Almost everyone who has replied to this thread, with the exception of the first couple people, have completely missed the point. A very large percentage of people have decided that it's ok to lose money at an activity they originally started to make money. I said I wasnt going to reply to this thread anymore, and I went against that here.  I give up, stick a fork in me, I'm done.


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ElisePetite Resident
May 17, 2014, 12:51 pm -

Agreed Cat. But business is business and it's the same with any other.

I only found out about the royal potions today and it finally explained the truly insane scores a couple of people are getting each week. I had thought for a while that these people just had no life and ran around all day but today I discovered there are performance enhancements. The pay-to-win thing has taken the fun out of it for me. IMHO the fact you can pay to win should be noted on the Royal Hunt info web pages. I don't care a jot about being number one, I just wish I'd have known I was up against supercharged players before going in.

 


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